| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Casper
Community Friend
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 1534
Location: Kent,England
|
 Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:05 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Currahee wrote: | Where do i start... cuz tbh i'm raging reading this thread.
First thing
Admin (bull?), next time a sitiuation like this comes on our path i would like to adress that sometimes a quick msg on xfire to the recruitee or the recruiter in question would resolve a lot. Asking this in public, with certain members not quite witty enough to stay polite, thing go the wrong way.
In fact, i would have responded in about the same way he did.
There was nothing wrong with your question Bull, it was more then fair.
Second
I would like to answer some questions for you as i'm not keen on the way things are going here lately.
question one; When EW disbanded he was unsure about the future ( as in career) Thinking he only had 2 weeks left to play before going to school and not having acces to internet. Thus he joined the clan where a couple of guys from EW went to.
Then me comes up and invites him into our clan as his future changed by going to college instead of enlisting in Mil. Giving more gametime. He accepts my invite but likes to wait removing X tags till he is accepted into our clan (very reasonable no??)
Second, the admin on website question. The only reason he was admin was because he made them the website.. (reasonable no??)
Thirdly,
With treating possible applicants like this we are bound for stationary movement. We need to recruit new ppl, decent and mature. Wolf. I know you want ppl for Cod4 but i would like to suggest an age increase in new applicants. I am tired as f**k reading kiddy replies and have numb convo's on teamspeak.
Red could have been a great addition to our clan. I can vouch for the guy even with his replie on this thread. As i stated before i would have been raging reading some replies made after Admin's post. And what am i in this clan? Have i been a loyal member, making an effort in scrims and whatmore?
I havn't played a decent scrim in the last 2 months. Playlevel has descended and my enjoyment has decreased at the same slope.
Last but not least, Angelcore;
| Angelcore wrote: | | not a,oud to be ignorat wen we have that information, and the only reason he sed bye was cuz he ciudnt think of a excuse for tht |
i have asked you before and i will ask you again nicely. Stop with talking like that on the forum. I will not ask again nicely.
If anyone wants to ask / comment on my post plz use xfire as open flamewars are not what i'm seeking for. |
for a start if we have to comment on your post why use xfire? what is this forum for with everytime a dicussion comes up then you want a xfire convo?
Yes what you stat can be taken into account. but you missed out 1 key fact. He played a match for them the day before admin posted. To me that tells me hes active in that clan.
Also he clearly stats that =[X]= are an EX team.
The reason things are posted here is so everyone can judge. as you can see 9 members make up the vote on to who gets in. the clan is what 14 strong? so the Majority who read it can vote apon it. This also helps see how often a person is willing to check our forums.
If you dont like the comments that come onto posts and little snipes then where have you been? I could drag up my first app here. The amount of little comments that can my way. I do belive that old wilky treated me hostile of the reason i left my old clan. But who still stuck it out cause they wanted to be here? it helps so how much they want to be here.
You do also stat a good point on the cod4 side of things. I do belive we do need some fresh faces in. I also agree the skill we play at has dropped dramtically. this i belive is because of 2 reasons
1. Edom is not what it was clan wise. There now is only one clan we have played in the last few months that i wanted to really play agasint. And that was Easy.
2. Beacuse of fact 1 no one cares about the matchs anymore. No one cares if we win or lose cause there is no meaning in them.
we have hit the point in a games life when it starts to die. And this is starting to happen. I belive there is still a good 2-3 years left in cod4 But without a new fresh game released recently we have had nowhere to go.
And curra about angelcore. No need to rage at him on here. If thats the way he writes thats down to him not you.
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Currahee
Major
Joined: 23 Jun 2009
Posts: 555
Location: Groningen, NL
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Casper wrote: |
And curra about angelcore. No need to rage at him on here. If thats the way he writes thats down to him not you. |
No. I can state what i feel needed. I have asked nicely. I do not wish to read such jibberish. If i did i'd join a clan with av age 12. Casper i do realise you are of his age. And my point wasn't adressed to you as your obviously behaving as should be.
I've been in gaming clans for what.. 10 years now. I've seen this happen before and it's not a good thing.
Just a little warning thats all.
My earlyer post still stands your replies don't unempower my statements.
9 ppl can vote on applicants. Let them be the judge, ask such question in private and let the answer rule. If you wish to make such things public let everyone in the clan have a vote on whom will be accepted.
Where have i been.. ive been in mature clans and i've been in flamer clans. I'm not retarded and can see the difference between a " good " poke / joke and inferiour remarks aimed at personal discomfort.
What i was trying to say things are going wrong and people have spoken before it was their turn to speak or. People have judged without talking to him or letting him or me answer the questions.
IMO Red would have been a great addition to our clan. and it's a DAMN shame thing went the way they went.
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Super
Community Friend
Joined: 05 Oct 2008
Posts: 2263
Location: North London, UK
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Casp isn't 12.
Questions like this SHOULD NOT be kept in the dark everyone in the clan has the right to know. Curra you make good points but tbh mate its a fuss over practically nothing.
As for Angelcore you seem to be contradicting yourself... You're saying you don't want public flamewars then you abuse someones writing... In public why didn't you take that up with him on xfire? Don't be contradicting. Also he can type how he wants, I personally hate it when people don't type properly... but its up to them how they type theres no rule against it and thus he can do it if thats how he feels comfortable.
Leave this thread to die. Move on.
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cake
Joined: 19 Dec 2009
Posts: 9
Location: United Kingdom
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Currahee wrote: | My earlyer post still stands your replies don't unempower my statements.
What i was trying to say things are going wrong |
Apologies (and I know you mentioned leaving this thread to die), however
Currahee, you state you have been in clans for what, 10 years and you say that this time has given you experience. I have known Angel for about 3 years now and know that he is a GREAT guy. You think merely because of age that you know more than us "younger ones".
If what you are saying is true that age gives you experience, then surely you would have understood by now that the style, not the words, but the style someone writes in-or in this case types, has nothing to do with their personality or how they act, it is merely something that is different to everyone.
Then, after ACTUALLY IN the massive rant about him being childish and typing GIBBERISH ((spelt correctly) as you called it), manage to make simple spelling mistakes and construct simple sentences that have simple punctual mistakes meaning the sentence makes no grammatical sense is, rather funny actually >.<...
(I hope dearly that this post doesn't diminish from my chances of joining the clan, however I feel it is my duty as a friend to stand up for someone and something I believe in, sorry.)
Cake |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Currahee
Major
Joined: 23 Jun 2009
Posts: 555
Location: Groningen, NL
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
When did i state casper was 12?
Since when is a flamewar a question as to regard of talking on public forums? Asked him nicely on forums. If he won't reply or keep doing it i'll take it up with him on xfire.
Theres difference in matter m8. IMHO this should have been asked in private whereas talking on forums is being done on forums.
We, as the non officers, have NO say in whether someones accepted or declined. Therefor i would suggest questions asked should not be in public but in private. And answers should be discussed by the officers council. If then there still is a need to explain someones words or actions then is the time to put it in public.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Currahee
Major
Joined: 23 Jun 2009
Posts: 555
Location: Groningen, NL
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Cake wrote: | | Currahee wrote: | My earlyer post still stands your replies don't unempower my statements.
What i was trying to say things are going wrong |
Apologies (and I know you mentioned leaving this thread to die), however
Currahee, you state you have been in clans for what, 10 years and you say that this time has given you experience. I have known Angel for about 3 years now and know that he is a GREAT guy. You think merely because of age that you know more than us "younger ones".
If what you are saying is true that age gives you experience, then surely you would have understood by now that the style, not the words, but the style someone writes in-or in this case types, has nothing to do with their personality or how they act, it is merely something that is different to everyone.
Then, after ACTUALLY IN the massive rant about him being childish and typing GIBBERISH ((spelt correctly) as you called it), manage to make simple spelling mistakes and construct simple sentences that have simple punctual mistakes meaning the sentence makes no grammatical sense is, rather funny actually >.<...
(I hope dearly that this post doesn't diminish from my chances of joining the clan, however I feel it is my duty as a friend to stand up for someone and something I believe in, sorry.)
Cake |
To make things clear English is not my native language and i wrote my post in a hurry. Furthermore i was and am unhappy with the course taken.
Red is a friend of mine. Does that give me the right to critcize someone on his language on our forums, Insulting someone?
Some of us find it extremely annoying to read that GIBBERISH on forums. So it would be advisable to refrain from that.
10 years in clanlife does give experience. Experience the young don't have. It's called life. You'll find out eventually.
Try to insult me again and i will not be so polite
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cake
Joined: 19 Dec 2009
Posts: 9
Location: United Kingdom
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Firstly,
I was in no way insulting you and apologies if you got that impression, merely standing up for a friend of mine. You should understand better than anyway in the reply you just posted, stating Red is a friend of yours and that gives you the right to stand up for him.
Secondly,
Again I apologies, I was not under the impression English was no your native language.
Thirdly,
A word of advice (passive ofc), in future if you wish to post a remark about someones writing and saying that it is annoying and "bad" that someones types incorrectly, ensure you yourself make no mistakes 
Once again apologies!
Cake |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Currahee
Major
Joined: 23 Jun 2009
Posts: 555
Location: Groningen, NL
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Super
Community Friend
Joined: 05 Oct 2008
Posts: 2263
Location: North London, UK
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I misread what you wrote about him being 12! My bad dude .
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Frecker
General
Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 4580
Location: Newcastle
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
yous are all noobs.Just shh.
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cobbspur
General
Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 981
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 8:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
interesting, perhaps a separate forum for applicants to discuss personal issues/matters that may affect their chance of success with the people who vote would be an idea although as already stated that does involve most of the clan.
i think perhaps this whole affair has been too personal.
My thoughts if you are interested. (probably not)
A few too many comments were made post admin comment without giving red the chance to defend or explain himself in a calm and mature manner.
This may be a reasonable excuse for his immature response, which is what it was.
Currahee you are well liked here and your efforts have not gone unnoticed and have been reflected in your promotions but you have contradicted yourself. You have complained at the way recruits and applicants are treated and then jumped down the throat of a new recruit. He may have angered you and it was wrong for him to make the comment about Red's attitude based purely on his name but once a player is recruited it is no longer your responsibility. I would advise you to pass your concerns up to admins and let them deal with it. I do understand your response though especially if Red is a friend of yours.
I agree that we shouldnt be so quick to dismiss people but respect is a 2 way street and it has to be earned.
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cobbspur
General
Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 981
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 8:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
oh also meant to add
yeah we are quiet at the moment gameswise
however this is because we are in-between seasons, we are in the middle of a major game releasein MW2 (love it or hate it ppl will take time away from current games to play a new game like this) and we are too close to christmas, it is the same every year
after christmas there will be more activity again no need to go panicking
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Super
Community Friend
Joined: 05 Oct 2008
Posts: 2263
Location: North London, UK
|
| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well said cobb pal.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bulldog
Field Marshal
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 5087
Location: Guernsey, Channel Islands
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Wow,
I go out for one night and then come back to this !
I personally after having read the thread can't see where the problem has arisen here ?
I did write the admin post asking for the explaination about the reason why someone who has stated they are in a clan that is run by a bunch of kids are still playing for that same clan on an evening after asking to join another community (clan),
There was a simple reason for this, the guys that are in =[X]= clan were here before they had a falling out and setup =[X]= Clan, I for one have no interest in accepting a new recruit if they have not told their previous clan they are leaving, in this case this cannot have happened as the new player who requested to join us was playing a match for =[X]= clan the night before I added my vote, for us to just accept a player who whether he knows it or not has a history involving this community or members who have passed through our doors would be incorrect, it would leave us open to being abused by the other clan that we "stole" a player of theirs.
I have no interest in doing this as it detracts from what we are trying to do here, it also means we gain an "enemy" in the gaming world which is a bad thing (in my opinion) and it also means that in doing this we would severly hurt another clan as they would lose a player when they may need one, for these reasons we have a public section (after registration) for new players to post in, this allows any member who signs up for our website t read exactly what another player has posted and allows all views to be open regarding a player joining us, it also gives us the ability to defend any accusations that are aimed at us regarding stealing members from another clan.
I accept that this guy is a friend of yours Currahee but nothing has been added which should have upset either the new player (RedCoccaine) or yourself, there are no rules regarding how members who signup to these forums are instructed to post although I agree that posting in crappy slang text is a pain in the arse, I would not want to inforce a rule that states you must post in correct text as it would never be able to be administered properly and who are we to tell others how to post.
I can accept that the New Player would not have taken lightly the way some replied after the admin post but if you look at what was added there was not much to have warrented the reply RedCoccaine added regarding us being ignorant, after all he did not know us and was the one wanting to join us not the other way around, these were the quotes that have led to this position from our members,
| Wilkinator wrote: |  |
| Casper wrote: | i love the Good Luck explaining yourself out of that one  |
| Angelcore wrote: | | the name ses what type of person he is xD RedCocaine normaly tells a story xD |
| =8th=Wolf wrote: | | gotta love some of the stories, this 1 sounds a real cracker |
Apart from Angelcore who was not here when the split involving those who setup =[X]= clan left this community there is absolutely nothing which should have led to the reply from RedCoccaine, he was asked by Admin (me) to explain why he was still playing for =[X]= clan that was all, it was noted by me after a tip off from a person outside of this community who mentioned he was playing an official war for the =[X]= clan, I think it is quite reasonable for us to ask for an explanation about this as we dont want players who just join and then P*ss us around, its not benificial for any of us.
The door would be still open for him to fix this if he wanted too try, I cannot tell you what the outcome would be as I have a single vote from 9 but if he is as mature as he says he is then the ball is in his court to fix this, all that is required is for him to post in his own words the answers to the Admin post where the questions were asked
_________________
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bulldog
Field Marshal
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 5087
Location: Guernsey, Channel Islands
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Cobbspur wrote: | My thoughts if you are interested. (probably not)
A few too many comments were made post admin comment without giving red the chance to defend or explain himself in a calm and mature manner.
This may be a reasonable excuse for his immature response, which is what it was.
Currahee you are well liked here and your efforts have not gone unnoticed and have been reflected in your promotions but you have contradicted yourself. You have complained at the way recruits and applicants are treated and then jumped down the throat of a new recruit. He may have angered you and it was wrong for him to make the comment about Red's attitude based purely on his name but once a player is recruited it is no longer your responsibility. I would advise you to pass your concerns up to admins and let them deal with it. I do understand your response though especially if Red is a friend of yours.
I agree that we shouldnt be so quick to dismiss people but respect is a 2 way street and it has to be earned. |
Your thoughts are as important to all of us as any other post is and I agree that after the Admin post was added it may have been better to have waited for him to offer an explaination before any posts were added but we all have our own opinions regarding his ability to play for a team that is apparently run by kids.
This has been an interesting recruitment thread and I for one am pleased that this has been done in the open as there is no reason to have any of this hidden, we as Admin's really do check on the status of our players and new players especially wanting to join us as it is important to get the right players in through our doors rather than as in the past have any player join us, quality rather than quantity is the winner here.
Other clans do it different where they just accept any player, an example of this in our ranks is Cobbspur, he was loyal to PFB clan to the death and beyond which we accepted and admired him for as they were pretty much dead for around 2-3 months, he wanted to join us and we really wanted him to join, but, it took 3 interested in joining posts before he was accepted into our ranks and we were desperate to accept him but due to the way we work and our rules and regulations we could not make it happen,
I feel it is important to treat these new guys as I would expect (although rarely shown) a member to leave our ranks, for these players to confirm that they have left their old clan and posted on the old forums a statement which clearly shows their intention to leave, I would not be happy to find a player play for us on one night then leave us just like that, I cant see how that helps any clan to grow.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bulldog
Field Marshal
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 5087
Location: Guernsey, Channel Islands
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
Sorry,
I just noticed that this topic was locked, I had a touch of alcoholic posioning last night when adding the posts I did so I am not sure if the topic was locked by me, I dont remember doing it but incase I have re-opened it 
If you do reply lets make sure it is constructive as it is still up to the player to respod if he so wishes, if you do wanna rant regarding the way this application has been handled feel free but remember we have other sections on these forums where such things would be better done if it needs be.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Casper
Community Friend
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 1534
Location: Kent,England
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Bulldog wrote: | Wow,
I go out for one night and then come back to this !
I personally after having read the thread can't see where the problem has arisen here ?
I did write the admin post asking for the explaination about the reason why someone who has stated they are in a clan that is run by a bunch of kids are still playing for that same clan on an evening after asking to join another community (clan),
There was a simple reason for this, the guys that are in =[X]= clan were here before they had a falling out and setup =[X]= Clan, I for one have no interest in accepting a new recruit if they have not told their previous clan they are leaving, in this case this cannot have happened as the new player who requested to join us was playing a match for =[X]= clan the night before I added my vote, for us to just accept a player who whether he knows it or not has a history involving this community or members who have passed through our doors would be incorrect, it would leave us open to being abused by the other clan that we "stole" a player of theirs.
I have no interest in doing this as it detracts from what we are trying to do here, it also means we gain an "enemy" in the gaming world which is a bad thing (in my opinion) and it also means that in doing this we would severly hurt another clan as they would lose a player when they may need one, for these reasons we have a public section (after registration) for new players to post in, this allows any member who signs up for our website t read exactly what another player has posted and allows all views to be open regarding a player joining us, it also gives us the ability to defend any accusations that are aimed at us regarding stealing members from another clan.
I accept that this guy is a friend of yours Currahee but nothing has been added which should have upset either the new player (RedCoccaine) or yourself, there are no rules regarding how members who signup to these forums are instructed to post although I agree that posting in crappy slang text is a pain in the arse, I would not want to inforce a rule that states you must post in correct text as it would never be able to be administered properly and who are we to tell others how to post.
I can accept that the New Player would not have taken lightly the way some replied after the admin post but if you look at what was added there was not much to have warrented the reply RedCoccaine added regarding us being ignorant, after all he did not know us and was the one wanting to join us not the other way around, these were the quotes that have led to this position from our members,
| Wilkinator wrote: | |
| Casper wrote: | | i love the Good Luck explaining yourself out of that one |
| Angelcore wrote: | | the name ses what type of person he is xD RedCocaine normaly tells a story xD |
| =8th=Wolf wrote: | | gotta love some of the stories, this 1 sounds a real cracker |
Apart from Angelcore who was not here when the split involving those who setup =[X]= clan left this community there is absolutely nothing which should have led to the reply from RedCoccaine, he was asked by Admin (me) to explain why he was still playing for =[X]= clan that was all, it was noted by me after a tip off from a person outside of this community who mentioned he was playing an official war for the =[X]= clan, I think it is quite reasonable for us to ask for an explanation about this as we dont want players who just join and then P*ss us around, its not benificial for any of us.
The door would be still open for him to fix this if he wanted too try, I cannot tell you what the outcome would be as I have a single vote from 9 but if he is as mature as he says he is then the ball is in his court to fix this, all that is required is for him to post in his own words the answers to the Admin post where the questions were asked |
I replyed in the way i did as it appears to me at the time(and still does) he wanted to stay in =[X]= but dint want to tell us that. thus looking for an excuse to not join us.
In regards to the posting comments. I belive it does not really make a big difference to a person putting there app in tbh. It does seem this was blown up out of nothing. I also feel that these forums always need to be kept open to posters. Even if every so often(as in this case) it seems to turn into a flame war. These forums are here for people to ask to join. Why cant people who have done the same be allowed to say what they think about them joining. Although there are only 9 people who can vote. It would seem that everyone has a input if they get in. Some of us can still help sway the voting as it where.
I personally dont see anything wrong with the system we have now and would like to keep it this way.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wilkinator
Community Friend
Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 3350
Location: U.K.
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Bulldog wrote: | Sorry,
I had a touch of alcoholic posioning last night |
Not sure I condone this sort of behaviour from such a prominent member of this community.
Just remember folks - alcohol is bad for you and poses a massive danger to your health.
Stick to orange squash (or ribeena if you're feeling fruity) and all will be well with the world.
Here endeth the lesson!
Saint Wilks
_________________
"If at first you don't succeed, try again. Then quit. There's no use being a damn fool about it".
-- W.C. Fields |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Frecker
General
Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 4580
Location: Newcastle
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
yawn
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wilkinator
Community Friend
Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 3350
Location: U.K.
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Frecker wrote: | | yawn |
LOL
Keeping you up mate?!!
_________________
"If at first you don't succeed, try again. Then quit. There's no use being a damn fool about it".
-- W.C. Fields |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jage
Community Friend
Joined: 20 Aug 2009
Posts: 278
Location: Faroe Islands
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
wow... this thread went all the way didn't it?
_________________
A computer once beat me at chess... but it was no match for me in kickboxing!
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Frecker
General
Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 4580
Location: Newcastle
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 6:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Keeping me up with B-O-R-D-E-M.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wilkinator
Community Friend
Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 3350
Location: U.K.
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Frecker wrote: | | Keeping me up with B-O-R-D-E-M. |
I tkae it that's Gerodie for:
BOREDOM
???
_________________
"If at first you don't succeed, try again. Then quit. There's no use being a damn fool about it".
-- W.C. Fields |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RedCocaine
Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 5
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i want to apologize for my behavior and want to let you know i am staying in [=X=] Xtremist thank you Curr for your help and Bulldog for contacting me after this incident anyway
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year
happy gaming/holidays |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
Powered by phpBB 2.0.8 © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group |
|
